The hate is strong for VW

labans
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:05 pm

Re: The hate is strong for VW

Post by labans »

Saintmoody:
I would agree that VW's have had a shoddy at best repair record for decades; along with every single other European brand! But since 2012 the quality has gotten markedly better, going from unreliable to barely acceptable. In truth the 2013, 2014 and 2015 models are now showing Excellent reliability ratings for all the major components which is a major change from past years. Which means that if you own an older model you probably have not yet experienced a "reliable" VW. Buy a new one----find out!!
Matt
Site Admin
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Re: The hate is strong for VW

Post by Matt »

My uncle just bought a mid-2000s (2005?) Jetta TDI, before the scandal broke. I'm wondering what Colorado will make him and other owners do for this "non-upgradable" class of VW diesel.

My 2¢: US states should let it go. Now the states are very concerned, very righteous, but where were their state labs and technicians while VW was selling these cars in their states, for a decade+? They just went with the official certification results because everybody else did too.
MyDogsPA wrote:The Jetta doesn't have DEF injection, so if the 'fix' is for VW to force a buyback of the cars (because adding a DEF system would be too costly and take 3 years to implement)...
lexmia
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:07 am

Re: The hate is strong for VW

Post by lexmia »

Interesting to see how short term our memories are.

Have we forgotten about the oil burning VW engines too soon? In the 90s, VW was still settling claims from owners that they cheated back in the 70s and 80s. Of course their engines had nothing wrong according to VW.

What about all the electrical problems in these cars?

Uneven tire wear issues?

Audi timing belt failures even before scheduled maintenance?

I admit that every car manufacturer tries to avoid paying up for their mistakes, but the fact that there was the intention to deceive is what gets me.

I do not see the German Quality reflected in these vehicles. Or maybe I do, and still have a hard time adapting to the new quality standards.
rtdodger
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:40 pm

Re: The hate is strong for VW

Post by rtdodger »

My (perhaps uneducated) perception is that CO2 is way more of a big deal than NOx. I see the emission standards as being a bit behind here.

I'd like to see a good article on this, if my perception is correct, and the implications to CO2 from any VW fix.
AEC
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:02 pm

Re: The hate is strong for VW

Post by AEC »

Labans, you are right!
oldironsights
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:47 pm

Re: The hate is strong for VW

Post by oldironsights »

I have been a Diesel mechanic for 36 years now.
I saw the crackdown by the U.S. EPA on two stroke Detroit Diesel engines back in 1981. No more of the oil-leaking, smoke-spewing two-strokes allowed for highway use. Four-strokes only.
The four-strokes then were choked ever tighter year after year.
The low-sulfur fuel requirement was actually a good thing. I remember seeing engines damaged by cheap high-sulfur Mexican petrol where the metals were eaten away by the sulfur compounds created in the combustion chamber & crankcase. Steel exhausts likely fared as well. I also witnessed the effects of "acid-rain" on vegetation in the Appalachian mountains.
Now, I have to deal with all of the EPA mandated crap choking the engines I currently service. No way would I own a new Diesel powered automobile today. Todays Diesels have EGR valves & EGR coolers that choke the intake manifold & intake ports with thick layers of carbon from the untreated exhaust. Exhaust from the EGR coolers burn through the cooler core & into the cooling system causing all sorts of mayhem & possible permanent engine damage if not corrected.
Then there is the HPFP (High Pressure Fuel Pump), the fuel injection pump that can implode due to the extreme pressures generated within.
Don't forget the VGT (Variable Geometry Turbo), VGT actuator & its cooling requirement. Carbon builds up inside the turbo until the pivots & linkage can no longer move.
Once the exhaust exits the engine, it passes a NOx sensor & flows under pressure through a first-stage catalyst, then the DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter) that traps the soot to be burned off at 1100 to 1300 degrees by injecting more fuel into the engine. The engine computer controls injection until the DPF soot load is reduced.
Then the exhaust enters a decomposition chamber where purified goat piss is injected ( Diluted Urea called DEF or Diesel Exhaust Fluid ), & into another catalyst before exiting through another NOx sensor to atmosphere. The secondary treatment is called SCR ( Selective Catalytic Reduction )
All of this power-robbing exhaust system has to be sealed tight to maintain pressure & temperature so the SCR can be more complete. Computer compares readings from the incoming exhaust to the readings of the outgoing exhaust to determine SCR efficiency. If outgoing NOx exceeds limits, a CEL ( Check Engine Light ) is illuminated. If NOx is exceeded for too long, computer will order a torque derate where vehicle speed is limited.
The higher cost of acquiring a Diesel powered vehicle combined with the higher cost of replacement parts & service makes the decision to drive a gasoline powered car an easy one. Gasoline also costs less ($1.499 vs $1.989 as of today).
In years past Diesel powered cars were great. They were reliable, long-lasting, provided more torque when Diesel fuel cost less & would propel a car further down the road per gallon than gasoline.
I always thought an engine that burned less fuel would produce less pollution. I had a Diesel powered Jetta back in the 90's Loved the torque & MPG's when fuel was cheap.
You can thank the EPA for erasing any advantage to having a Diesel powered car. Diesel power is still the first choice for working trucks.
I admired VW's entrance strategy to giving both the customer & the EPA what they wanted ( By meeting EPA requirements while on a dyno & by meeting customer requirements while on the open road ) as I have an intense dislike for our current Federal government & all of the agencies that attempt to rule us like wayward children.
Why VW allowed this to continue without an exit strategy when there were warning signs of concern long before this was exposed is something only a dumb criminal would allow. The evidence of the cheating software could have been removed long ago with a recall & perhaps that would have been enough to avoid the current situation. Now not only must VW pay for this transgression, but all of those that rely upon, support & invest in VW must suffer losses. That is an even greater crime than the excess NOx.
I still like my choice of a 1.8 TSI Passat Limited over Nissan Altima & Honda Accord.
labans
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:05 pm

Re: The hate is strong for VW

Post by labans »

Oldironsights:
"The higher cost of acquiring a Diesel powered vehicle combined with the higher cost of replacement parts & service makes the decision to drive a gasoline powered car an easy one."
The Death Knell for the automotive diesel has been sounded! Give up while we still can!
OR------you could buy a nice diesel car that you like and convert it to run on straight used vegetable oil!! And VOILA! no more pollution problems and Voila! every conversion I have worked with runs better: quieter, smoother and a nicer smelling exhaust! With excellent power!!
The EPA has been completely hornswaggled by Oil Company executives who have spent billions of dollars assuring that the US will never have the efficient diesel fleet that Europe has. NO DIESEL CARS is what they have been pushing for 30 years and it looks like they have won!
Blaming the Federal govt. however is just wrong. Given independence and top rated scientists the EPA would do the right thing----but they are completely driven by oil company political ambition.
I drive a vegetable converted diesel and it is flawless.
oldironsights
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:47 pm

Re: The hate is strong for VW

Post by oldironsights »

labans;
I had a second generation Jetta TurboDiesel back in the late 80's/Early 90's.
Loved it! While only 68HP, it had more torque than gasoline engines of similar or larger displacement.
40+MPG. I used to fill the tank once a month.
Got hit by a MCI bus.
Might buy a pre 2009 Passat TDI if the price & condition is acceptable to me.
In my home state, I could be charged with felony tax evasion for making my own or recovering vegetable oil for use as a highway motor fuel.
I work near oil refineries, so gasoline is cheap & plentiful here. Last week a gallon of gas cost $1.489 & Diesel was $1.949.
I need to fill my VW & Volvo this weekend. Prices may fall lower.
How you can blame oil companies for trying to discontinue use of a petroleum product makes no sense to me.
I blame the federal alphabet soup agencies for micromanaging every aspect of my daily life from the hours I sleep to the amount of water I use to wash & to flush. They even control the clothes I wear while working.
Don't get me started on a rant! :) My blood boils every time I go to the mailbox & get some official letter from a state or federal agency informing me of new rules & how I could be fined, fired or imprisoned for violating said rules.
labans
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:05 pm

Re: The hate is strong for VW

Post by labans »

Oldironsights:
I appreciate your pedicament and views. I know that while other folks get their blood boiling and rant at regulation, I focus on the social good that can only come about through certain regulations. One good example is our national and state road system. I live in Texas and can tell you that although the state govt does not like my using recycled vegetable oil for my cars and trucks, they do not try to enforce a felony crime to it. And that is what you should really be mad about!! No State or Federal agency should ever tell me what I can and cannot use to power my car if it does NOT cause any pollution or other social or environmental problem. You should fight back!! And BTW, the #1 main attraction of using veggie oil is ZERO pollution. #2 attraction is proper recycling of used cooking oil. And there are other very good reasons that should trump one's use of petroleum products.
Now one major issue to address: Why does your state and other entities try to restrict the use of veggie oil? Very simply: The NUMBER ONE us of used vegetable oil is for COSMETICS!!! Thats right! The cosmetics industry has been getting a completely free ride for years by doing restaurants a favor and "disposing" of their used oil by only charging a small amount for the pickup!!!! Incredible!!!! And when restaurants did not agree to pay to get rid of their oil, State Legislatures put into law a requirement that the oil be properly disposed of via these so-called renderers----and the US EPA backed this up with a rule saying the same thing.
In Texas, however, there was so much pressure on the establishment to allow veggie oil pickup and refining by individuals and coops that it forced the damn renderers to start paying the restaurants for the pickup. Now we have to compete with that cost.
And also to everyone who reads this, veggie recyclers DO NOT support BioDiesel. It is abad and very dangerous product requirement extremely dangerous chemicals to refine it and it is and ABSOLUTELY UNNECESSARY fuel. Not as good as pure veggie oil and more expensive.
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